Aviation Forum / General / Soaring / November 2008

Depends on the club culture.  Also, it's considered poor taste to be
the only occupant of an aircraft wearing a parachute so while taking
instruction you'd need 2.  Maybe the club already has a couple chutes
that are only worn for aerobatics and you can ask to use them for
regular instructional flights.  Might raise some eyebrows.  Once you
are near to solo I'd say go for it and get yourself a chute and learn
how to use it.  With a background in cave diving I'd say your risk
management thinking is probably more developed than most regular
humans pilots included!  My personal experience indicates that the
best place to shop for parachutes is http://www.silverparachutes.com/.
Whether you can afford new or used you will get the best service from
Alan.  Beware the killer deal on a used chute from anyone else.

Now you really want to raise eyebrows?  Ask about parachutes in
powered general aviation.  They will think you are a loony (unless
it's aerobatics) in which case they will really think you are a loony.

Matt Michael

A few years ago I jumped into a K8 that had just arrived at our club.

It had almost an arm chair as a seat, so no room for a parachute.  It was a
great day in mid summer so 10 minutes later I'm at nearly 7000'.  Nice
flight and I came down to jump into my K6 to get my silver height gain,
which was duly done.

Arrived home to find my S & G magazine had arrived.  Read the accidents
page and saw about a UK accident where a parachutist had hit the wing of
a K8 which then spun in. It must have taken quite a few seconds in descent
for that K8 to reach the ground, as he had no parachute.

I've never flown since if there was ever a chance of getting above winch
launch height.  Yes some will laugh, but they did that we got seat belts in
cars didn't they?

I once was a passenger in about 1967 where we smashed into the side of a
car that jumped the lights.  It was only at 20 mph and I was ready with my
hands on the dash, I still got a bloody nose when hitting the windscreen.
I learnt then that belts were a good thing,  But you can't get such a
warning in
a glider hitting the ground. Parachutes fulfil the same function, so why not
use
one?

I do not agree with the safety police policies, but some things just seem to
be about
right!

 

No, that's just not true.  You will find that almost all pilots that
own their own gliders and also fly cross county will wear a
parachute.  Maybe some of them got into that habit because they also
fly contests in which parachutes are required. More likely they wear
parachutes because the glider was designed to use a parachute as part
of the seat back.  Some pilots even like to think they have an option
if something goes wrong in flight.

Andy

Go get one. Wear it. I don't give a rat's posterior what other folks think of
me.

I promised my wife I would have one always (even just toodling 'round the
pattern) to keep options open.

Well, then it sounds like I should buy a parachute after I solo!

As most pilots come to injury or grief in the landing phase where a
parachute is not a factor, use during training with an instructor is
generally not a factor.  Use during competitions and aerobatics does
reflect on the somewhat increased risk associated with types of
flying.  That doesn't mean that the rare event where a parachute made
a difference doesn't occur.  As mentioned, use by a single person in a
two-seater is generally bad form unless perhaps strapped to a
lightweight person for ballasting purposes.  One club took the
position that all training flights would use parachutes and that
policy was fortuitous for the instructor and student when their glider
was hit by a lightning bolt that struck five miles from the cloud,
causing the glider to 'explode'.  However, there have been many more
accidents caused at altitudes below parachute effectiveness through
failure to fly the aircraft when finding the canopy unlatched.
Several injuries and fatals have resulted from spins during training
flights, just to compare risks.  A German study once concluded that
survival in an incident requiring parachute use below 600m agl was
very low.  That said, some emergency chutes are very effective at low
altitudes with good horizontal speed.  Not long ago there was a mid-
air between a glider and a jet, the glider pilot survived using his
chute.  Several years ago there was a mid-air in the same region, that
pilot was not wearing a chute, but managed to limp back to the the
airport with a fuselage that was nearly severed by the impact.  This
past summer there was a mid-air during a competition in the US where
one of the pilots successfully hit the silk and the other was able to
fly back to a safe landings.  Note it was during competition, one of
the increased risk scenarios.  Several years ago a pilot with a folded
up wing rode his glider into the trees in Florida.  Most of these are
rare happenings.

I normally don't wear a chute in the club two-seaters, but I do wear
one in my own gliders.  I'm unlikely to use one unless I know the
primary structure has failed.  Even then, I have to consider the
outcomes.  I bought one of these while flying in the UK http://tinyurl.com/64btg9
Why? Because it's a comfortable chair type chute and my first choice
was several months backordered http://tinyurl.com/55t3fz and I didn't
wish to wait.  At the time they were separate companies.  Look at the
performance differences.  As I fly in the US west mostly, my current
chute is unlikely to allow a landing without injury over the
elevations where we fly.  The EB80 is quite a bit different in pack
and performance and will probably be my choice for a replacement one
of these days.  About 30 years ago, a pilot doing a high speed pass in
an Open Cirrus VTC fluttered it to pieces.  He departed the glider at
about 100ft at 100kts and landed safely in his EB80.  No interest in
the company, but a fondness for this rig.  I wore one for three years
of flying an SHK.  Other pilots will have an appreciation for chutes
that have served them well.  A little history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club

Frank Whiteley

not a dumb question at all!
having already bailed out of one glider and successfully survived the ordeal
I find it very uncomfortable to fly without one...in fact for many years
found it uncomfortable to even fly with one!..
at the time, I too was in a club that quite frankly didn't use parachutes,
some there even made some remarks because I did...but none the less, almost
all gliders are designed for parachutes to be used in them, most flight
manuals calculated weight and balance takes this into account and requires
you to either wear a parachute or add cushions to put you in the same
position...makes little sense to have cushions behind you when the wings
come apart!
If you continue to fly gliders and progress to more sophisticated singe seat
designs you'll want a parachute anyway....they are actually quite
comfortable.....and comforting to have there...
also a bigger parts of wearing a parachute is knowing how to use it.....read
the manual, go through the motions.....or even get with a sport parachuting
club or operation and get an hours worth of instruction on how to use it and
avoid common mistakes..Emergency parachutes are designed to work even when
you do things terribly wrong with them, that's what sets them apart from
sport skydiving parachutes, but you can enhance your safety and willingness
to actually use one without hesitation if the case ever comes up..
"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was
down here"
best of luck!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

Regardless of what kind of flight I'm taking in a glider of any type,
I feel naked and insecure without a parachute on. This is based on the
reports of inflight collisions I've read (e.g. the Hawker/ASG29 near
Minden), and my own experience as a rookie x/c pilot when I carelessly
got sucked into a CU. Fortunately I didn't break the glider but like
Andy's experience at that first turnpoint, it left a lasting
impression.

~ted/2NO

ps full disclosure -- I'm also biased by a previous life as a
skydiver; jumpers are nervous getting in any small aircraft without a
rig on.

Man - only on the internet could I 'discover' a thread ~24 hours after
it started, and find it was old/over on the same day!  Anyhow...

"What everyone else has already said."

'Way back when' when my instructor kicked me out of the 2-33 we'd been
flying to the club's 1-26, he added (in what seemed to me, then, almost
an afterthought), "Go grab a parachute for the flight."

"Why?" asks I.  "We haven't been using them on our flights."

"I can't fit in the back of a 2-33 with a 'chute, and you don't get one
if I don't get one.  Trust me...wear a 'chute any time you can."

That last bit made sense then.  Still does today.  A few years later, my
personal 'chute was in for a repack, so I flew my
(supine-piloting-position) HP-14 resting atop 4" of foam.  It
simultaneously: was terrifying; felt akin to (I imagine!) being naked
before the Pope; provided much food for contemplation of the U.S. FAA's
'curious wisdom' regarding emergency 'chute accessibility to the PIC vs.
violating then-applicable 'chute FARs.

Of course my view may have been biased by being a 1-time user of the
same 'chute...

Regards,
Bob - likes to listen to those little voices in his head - W.

P.S.  As already noted, you'd be rather irked with yourself - for a
while, anyway - if you needed a 'chute and had opted to fly without it.