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Aviation Forum / General / Soaring / September 2008Club class/Sports class
Martin Gregorie: Please expand on the handicap system that you use and the gliders allowed in the Club Class and the Sports Class under this system. Thanks, Sam > Martin Gregorie: > Please expand on the handicap system that you use and the gliders allowed > in the Club Class and the Sports Class under this system. Thanks, Sam 5U You can find at: www.gliding.co.UK/forms/competitionrules If this doesn't connect, google British Gliding association. UH On Sep 23, 4:28 pm, unclh...@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Martin Gregorie: > > Please expand on the handicap system that you use and the gliders allowed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If this doesn't connect, google British Gliding association. > UH Try www.wwgc2007.org/DOWNLOAD/Handicaps_list_31032007.pdf > Martin Gregorie: > Please expand on the handicap system that you use and the gliders > allowed in the Club Class and the Sports Class under this system. > Thanks, Sam In summary: in the UK "Club Class" includes any glider in the IGC Club Class list and any glider with a handicap of 98 or below on the BGA handicaps table. See page 26 in http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/competitionrules2008.pdf for the full, gory details and page 18 for adjustments if the glider is modified with tiplets, root fairings, turbulators, etc. As a concrete example of the Club/Sport split, the Discus 1a or 1b, ASW-20 and ASW-20f all have a handicap of 98. All other Discus 1s and all other ASW-20s have higher handicaps: the ASW-20b,c have 100. The lowest assigned handicaps are the Falke (46) and Slingsby T-21 (50). The highest is the ASW-22bl and Nimbus 4 (118). To apply the BGA handicap, multiply the actual speed by 100 and divide by the handicap.  Signaturemartin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | On Sep 24, 5:38 am, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address.invalid> wrote: > > Martin Gregorie: > > Please expand on the handicap system that you use and the gliders [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > gregorie. | Essex, UK > org | I'm a little hazy on the Club Class rules. But if it really includes any ship with less than 98 on the BCA handicap list then the argument that Club Class is a lot fairer than Sports Class loses a lot of validity, as does the argument that handicap inaccuracies can confer significant advantages in a contest. An ASW 27 has a handicap of 104 versus 98 for an ASW 20 - 6%. If you assumed the handicap was in error by say 20% that would be a 1% advantage confered one way or the other. That hardly seems grounds for claiming the system is unfair. Variations in a single pilot's performance run 5-10 times that amount typically. Also, if I understand, all lower handicap gliders can legally fly club class, which if true means that Club Class includes gliders with handicaps in the 60s and 70s, so you haven't really narrowed the spread meaningfully. 9B Everything I have read elsewhere about the Club class is that it has led to highly developed and therefore high $$ gliders, with masses of development. Winglets, profiling, special sealing, detail detail detail. Now some people are capable of doing this – either through skills, having facilities to (Moffatt-like) saw the wingtips off their glider and refinish, or having large numbers of dollars to spend to get someone else to do it. Europe has its club system with well-organized repair and maintenance facilities and they prepare the hell out of their gliders. Sam with his LS-1 fits into this mould. He said at the Seniors one time that he had spent some hundreds of hours fixing his glider; he didn’t indicate how much it cost. Well there are not too many of us here with the same dedication, the same facilities or skills (or spare $$). The greatest thing about the US Sports class is that it is definitely "you fly what you brung" and the handicap system more or less evens things out and the best pilots win, regardless of weather. There is no added expense in any sense (time or money) over and above what makes sense to fly cross country. Just look at the spread of aircraft performance last year at Parowan. The system worked. It will be interesting to see who takes Dave Stephenson’s earlier examples – and Nick Kennedy’s this year – at next year’s Sport Nats and see who works out just which glider and which handicap (Ka-8 or Nimbus?) will give some minor advantage in the probable Elmira weather. But for the vast majority of entrants, the Sports class will provide super, tough and even competition. Please keep the pressure up to ensure that the US does not throw this wonderful class out, or screw it over in the interests of some theoretical gain in world contests. The fact is that the US is now not competitive in the world, since world-class gliding (the grand prix aside) has become a team event. Most leading overseas team pilots train together often for over a year before the worlds, learn and practice flying team (illegal in US contests), and have national facilities to train at or clubs that organize training for team members or potential team members. In the US, soaring is an individual sport (other than the beer etc after flying). I will vote accordingly. >On Sep 24, 5:38=A0am, Martin Gregorie > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >9B > Everything I have read elsewhere about the Club class is that it has led to > highly developed and therefore high $$ gliders, with masses of development. [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The things I do for you guys... Okay, here it is - a summary of 2008 Regional and National Sports Class Contests broken out by type of glider flown. Please don't nit- pick if I had to guess about a glider type or two that weren't on the IGC list (e.g. Elfe). 12 regionals had a Sports Class with 12.5 entrants on average. On average 6 contestants flew gliders that are too new for Club Class (IGC speed index above 98). On average 5.25 contestants flew Club Class gliders with speed indexes between 86 and 98 On average 1.25 contestants flew gliders with speed index of 85 or below (ASK-21, etc.) 4 contests had 3 or fewer Club Class gliders and 8 out of 12 had 5 or fewer (not counting the <85 group) 2 contests had 3 or fewer Sports Class gliders if all gliders below 98 move to Club. If gliders <85 stay in Sports then all 12 contests had more than 4 Sports Class contestants. In the Sports Nationals, out of 33 gliders, 22 were above 98, 8 were 86-98 and 3 were <86 speed index. Club Class gliders were evenly distributed among the finishers (e.g. 1, 7, 12...) Conclusions: Sports Class competition at the regional level is currently equally comprised of Club Class and Non-Club Class gliders. The numbers of gliders attending these events is such that splitting out Club Class as a separate class puts both classes close to the minimum limit for participants. In my view the competitiveness of a class goes down rapidly as you drop below 10 pilots and particularly below 5. I think one reason why Sports Class is doing so well is that there is critical mass of competitors at many contests now and everybody can fly the glider they fly week-in and week-out. At the national level holding a contest with 8 or 10 competitors is not nearly as good a test of skill as 20, 30, 40 or 50 - particularly when you consider that 30-40% of the competitiors have relatively low rankings to start with. With these kinds of numbers you are not doing yourself any favors in team selection. Having said that, if the current Club Class selection process favors pilots flying Club Class gliders in Sports Class contests then there is no impact on team selection. Irrespective of whether you restrict team selection to pilots flying club gliders, the simple point is that splitting out club class does violence to the integrity of a relatively vibrant Sports Class at the regional level and is relatively un-competitive at the national level. Both outcomes would be really bad IMHO. Under a Club Class Nationals scenario you might get more highly seeded pilots doing what Rick Walters did - borrowing a Club Class glider - but not in large numbers. 9B On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 05:56:30 -0700, ablackburn6 wrote: > I'm a little hazy on the Club Class rules. But if it really includes > any ship with less than 98 on the BCA handicap list From the current BGA rules: 10.2. Club Class. Water ballast must not be carried, scores are handicapped, and gliders listed in Appendix 1 with a Speed Index not exceeding 98 before additional performance enhancement handicap increments, are eligible to enter. In addition, all gliders listed on the current IGC Club Class handicap list are eligible. All gliders will fly at their allotted BGA Speed Index. > Also, if I understand, all lower handicap gliders can legally fly club > class, which if true means that Club Class includes gliders with > handicaps in the 60s and 70s, so you haven't really narrowed the spread > meaningfully. Yep. I remember seeing a Skylark 3 at the Gransden Regionals back in 2001 but can't remember seeing anything with lower performance than 1st generation glass at the last few Regionals. IMO lower performance gliders are on the list so they can register scores in the BGA Leagues rather than in the expectation that they will fly in Regionals and rated competitions. Signaturemartin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
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